cheap transfer gears for 5spd split case from an auto HJ60?

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

Hi guys,

after discovering this last night :

Quote:

hint, if you want a lower low range but not 'rock crawling" low then get a t/case from an auto HJ60 and swap in the gears. the final crawl is the same as if you changed out the rear gears to 4.88... i have done this swap on many of my bush rigs and love the result.

the the t/case aftermarket gears seem to howl a LOT.
From: http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/221083-crawl-gear-fr-my-5spd-bj42.html

I was wondering if you guys could assist with some info:

- what would the gearbox code be from an auto HJ60? (eg, mine is H55F)
is it the A440 or maybe the A440F??
- any ideas on the transfer gear ratio's from this box
marks adapters quotes : 2.95:1 for the A440F
- any ideas on the transfer gear rations from a manual 5spd HJ60? (for comparison)
found this info in that thread from Tapage:

Quote:

are 2.48:1 vs 2.28:1 in the gassers and 1.96:1 in diesels ..

- any ideas on the std transfer gear rations from a H55F (1984 BJ42).
found this info here: http://www.toyota.com.kw/English/toyota_models/landcruiser/history/html/history/models/spec_m40.html

Quote:

Gear ratio : high 1.000
Gear ratio : low 1.959

Any and all info would be helpful so I'm armed with enough of an idea when talking to the wreckers.

cheers,

Andrew

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

just figuring out how this would impact overall crawl ratio:

Currently I have
1st gear: 4.925:1
Low Range: 1.96:1
Diff Ratio: 4:11:1

using this calculator my overall crawl ratio would be: 39.6

Joined: 24 Dec 2002 Location: South Australia

shorty_f0rty wrote:

just figuring out how this would impact overall crawl ratio:

Currently I have
1st gear: 4.925:1
Low Range: 1.96:1
Diff Ratio: 4:11:1

using this calculator my overall crawl ratio would be: 39.6

is this the same lower low range gear cluster that is found in some 75 series and late 60 series?

Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Australia

Flicking through my 85-90 landcruiser manual, the Automatic gearbox is termed a A440F, where did you find out about the gearbox and transfer case ratios ? wouldnt mine looking into this myself, no idea what ratios I got though with a 3F/H55F/4.11 rear in a middy

cheers

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

hulsty wrote:

Flicking through my 85-90 landcruiser manual, the Automatic gearbox is termed a A440F, where did you find out about the gearbox and transfer case ratios ? wouldnt mine looking into this myself, no idea what ratios I got though with a 3F/H55F/4.11 rear in a middy

cheers

I found the ratios for my 40 here .. not all models are there though..

from the TLC faq.

Code:

Transmission & Transfer Case Ratios (All :1)
--------------------------------------------
MODEL ENGINE DATES SPDS 1ST 2ND 3RD 4TH 5TH R TFR LW TFR
?FJ25? F 4 5.41 3.12 1.77 1.000 5.44 NONE SPLINES
J30 F 69-75 3 2.757 1.691 1.000 3.676 2.313 10
H41 F 4 4.925 2.643 1.519 1.000 4.925 1.992 16
H41? B 75-80 4 5.299 2.843 1.634 1.000 5.299 1.959 16
H42 F,B 73-75 4 3.555 2.292 1.410 1.000 4.271 1.992 16
75-80 4 3.555 2.292 1.410 1.000 4.271 1.959 16
81-82 4 3.555 2.292 1.410 1.000 4.271 2.276 19
H55F F,B 83- 5 4.843 2.619 1.516 1.000 0.845 4.843 1.959 19
H150F HZ 5 4.529 2.464 1.490 1.000 0.881 4.313 2.488
H151F FZ,HD 5 4.081 2.294 1.490 1.000 0.881 4.313 2.488
A440F 3 2.488
A442F FZ,HD 4 2.950 1.530 1.000 0.765 2.678 2.488
???? L, 2L 5 3.928 2.333 1.451 1.000 0.851 4.743 2.276
150R 2L-T 5 4.313 2.330 1.436 1.000 0.838 4.220 2.295
???? 2L-T, 1KZ-T 5 3.830 2.062 1.436 1.000 0.838 4.220 2.296
???? 1KZ-T, 1KZ-TE 5 3.830 2.062 1.436 1.000 0.838 4.220 1.959

so really i now have:
1st: 4.843
low: 1.959
diff: 4.11
crawl: 36

with a440f low
1st: 4.843
low: 2.488
diff: 4.11
crawl: 45

could be worth the effort?

Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Australia

I did some calcs with the web page you showed.

With stock driveline 1.959 transfer
35'', 10mph = 2246rpm

with 2.488 transfer

35'', 10mph = 2852rpm

So, changing the gears will add ~600rpm across low range

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

crushers from the above ih8mud thread wrote:

the BJ42 5 spd comes with the 1.9 low
the BJ42 4 spd comes with the 2.3 low
the HJ60 auto comes with the 2.48 low

4.9 (H55F 1st) X 1.9 (low range) X 4.11 (diff gear) = 38.26 crawl BJ42 5 spd NA spec
4.3 (H42 1st) X 2.3 (low range) X 4.11 (diff gear) = 40.64 crawl BJ42 4 spd NA spec
4.9 (H42 1st) X 2.3 (low range gears from '4spd' t/case) X 4.11 diff gear) = 46.31 NA spec
4.9 (H55F 1st) X 1.9 (low range) X 4.88 (diff gear) = 45.43 crawl (for comparision)
4.9 (H55F 1st) X 1.9 (low range) X 5.29 (diff gear) = 49.24 crawl (for comparision)
4.9 (H55F 1st) X 2.48 (low range) X 4.11 (diff gear) = 49.94 crawl

the advantage of the low t/case gear is your day to day driveablity stays the same, fuel milage does not change but when you go into low range your crawl has been increased by 30%...quite adaquate for most wheeling.
i was incorrect in my earlier post, the t/case swap is equivilant to changing the diff gears to 5.29...sorry

i also added another of my favorite swaps for the earlier 83-85 5 spd t/case, the gears from a 81-82 4 spd t/case will slip right in giving you a healthy 46/1 crawl. a 13% crawl increase...doesn't sound like much but you can feel the increase in torque off road.

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

I got quoted $400 to swap in the gear into my transfer (assumed it was out of the vehicle).. still trying to track down firmer pricing on a transfer from the A440F.

Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Australia

so what exactly is required to make the swap? what parts? and any additional mods have to be done? seems like a worthwhile addition if its equivalent to a 5.29 diff ratio change. Are you sure aus spec cars have the stated ratios ? or they a global thing. I guess the big decider is how much can you get the gears for, or the whole case

cheers

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

hulsty wrote:

so what exactly is required to make the swap? what parts? and any additional mods have to be done? seems like a worthwhile addition if its equivalent to a 5.29 diff ratio change. Are you sure aus spec cars have the stated ratios ? or they a global thing. I guess the big decider is how much can you get the gears for, or the whole case

cheers

as far as I understand it..

get your transfer, rip out low range gear, and replace it with one from a A440F transfer. this will change your low range from 1.959 to 2.488 giving you better crawling in low range only.

so if you run 35" rubber and you have 4.56 diffs your low range 1st low would be lower than standard on 31"s

or if you run 33" rubber and you have the std 4.11 diffs your low range would be heaps better than standard on 31's..

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:13 pm

shorty_f0rty wrote:

using this calculator my overall crawl ratio would be: 39.6

Not working for me. Got another I can use?

Google is shitting me to tears ATM

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

WICKED wrote:

shorty_f0rty wrote:

using this calculator my overall crawl ratio would be: 39.6

Not working for me. Got another I can use?

Google is shitting me to tears ATM

http://www.4lo.com/4LoCalc.htm

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:20 pm

shorty_f0rty wrote:

WICKED wrote:

shorty_f0rty wrote:

using this calculator my overall crawl ratio would be: 39.6

Not working for me. Got another I can use?

Google is shitting me to tears ATM

http://www.4lo.com/4LoCalc.htm

I used http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/transfercase/getratio.htm

With an auto and t-case Gears mine is Crawl Ratio is 35.05. WTF It must be heaps lower!

Ford C4 Auto - 2.46 1st
60's T-Case with 68% reduction - 3.29 (std 1.96 / 100 = 0.0196 x 168 = 3.29)
Diff - 4.33
Crawl - 35.05

Where have I messed up?

Sorry for the Hi-jack!

Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Australia

shorty_f0rty wrote:

hulsty wrote:

so what exactly is required to make the swap? what parts? and any additional mods have to be done? seems like a worthwhile addition if its equivalent to a 5.29 diff ratio change. Are you sure aus spec cars have the stated ratios ? or they a global thing. I guess the big decider is how much can you get the gears for, or the whole case

cheers

as far as I understand it..

get your transfer, rip out low range gear, and replace it with one from a A440F transfer. this will change your low range from 1.959 to 2.488 giving you better crawling in low range only.

so if you run 35" rubber and you have 4.56 diffs your low range 1st low would be lower than standard on 31"s

or if you run 33" rubber and you have the std 4.11 diffs your low range would be heaps better than standard on 31's..

That sounds alright to me! so with my 35''s and a 2.488 gear my low range would be back around stock with 31''s . Would be good! At the moment stock gearing and 35''s is ok, just have to use low 1st all the time, havent tried any low speed stuff yet.

cheers Now to find some parts..... and schematics

Joined: 12 Nov 2003 Location: UnZud

Andrew I might know where you can get an auto and transfer for free or next to nothing let me know if your keen and I'll give the bloke a call.

Joined: 24 Dec 2002 Location: South Australia

WICKED wrote:

shorty_f0rty wrote:

WICKED wrote:

shorty_f0rty wrote:

using this calculator my overall crawl ratio would be: 39.6

Not working for me. Got another I can use?

Google is shitting me to tears ATM

http://www.4lo.com/4LoCalc.htm

I used http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/transfercase/getratio.htm

With an auto and t-case Gears mine is Crawl Ratio is 35.05. WTF It must be heaps lower!

Ford C4 Auto - 2.46 1st
60's T-Case with 68% reduction - 3.29 (std 1.96 / 100 = 0.0196 x 168 = 3.29)
Diff - 4.33
Crawl - 35.05

Where have I messed up?

Sorry for the Hi-jack!

sounds right, a C4 has fark all 1st gear. what did you expect?

most people agree that you can pretty much double the crawl ratio if your running an auto, because of the torque multiplication of the torque converter.

so 35.05:1 in an auto will feel like 70:1 in a manual, except for down hills.

Joined: 24 Dec 2002 Location: South Australia

could you just throw the transfer on your gearbox?

Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Australia

In my gregoeries manual it states that the automatic transfer case is similar to the manual and to follow the manual case section for the assembly

Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Australia

On a manual gearbox the transfer case bolts straight to the rear of the gearbox. Where on a auto, there is an adapter plate between the auto gearbox and transfer case.

From the pictures in the manul, to use the low range gear from the auto gearbox you would need the low range gear and the matching idler gear. Which should be fine aslong as the auto case has the same input, idler and high range gears

Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Australia

Rear this page, see the column for the FJ62, it suggests that the low range ratio with a H55F is already 2.488

http://cc.oulu.fi/~thu/LC/HJ61/J6.html

Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Location: The shire

I know this isn't the for sale section and not meaning to hijack this thread but i've got an auto out of a 62 series for sale............. PM me for details if interested.............

Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Australia

Some more info on available ratios

http://www.cruiserfaq.com/08-01.php

Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Location: somewhere out there

hulsty wrote:

Some more info on available ratios

http://www.cruiserfaq.com/08-01.php

nice one!

this suggests the 2.488 low range is found in 90+ auto's.. that'll help narrow them down.

Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Perth

So did any of you guys get around to doing it?

Im in desperate need of more gearing for my 84 HJ60 now i have 35s.

Looking at that last link it looks like a 1HZ gearbox/transfur is the same? And anything after 86 has the magic 2.29 gearset be it H55 or the auto box. Also would the petty gears work?

Im on the hunt for a cheap transfur case to try it! I need a clutch anyway so the labour wont be wasted at least!

Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Location: North East Melbourne

hulsty wrote:

I did some calcs with the web page you showed.

With stock driveline 1.959 transfer
35'', 10mph = 2246rpm

with 2.488 transfer

35'', 10mph = 2852rpm

So, changing the gears will add ~600rpm across low range

At 10mph it will add ~600rpm

At 20mph it will add ~1200rpm